BPMI.org

[repekcan]

Hi,

In BPMN documents page 43/296 :

A Collaboration ProcessType will have
two Lanes that represent business roles (e.g., buyer or seller) and will show
the interactions between these roles.

I dont understant this words.Because there is no interaction between lane acoording to Sequence Flow/Message Flow connection rules.There is interaction between pool and pool (Message Flow)
In same pool,if there are more than one lane , you can not do message flow beetween thus lanes.Because thus lanes
are in same pool.

Could you help me what is wrong for me. I didn understand this(see above).

Sincerely,

[Stephen A White]

Yes, that part of the text is confusing. It probably should have said "two Pools" instead of "two Lanes." But even that is probably not correct, since each Pool contains a separate Process. We will have to consider whether or not a Collaborative Process is a valid ProcessType. After we resolve our discussions with the ebXML TC, it still may be valid, but the description will likely change.

[Derek Miers]

Looking at it another way, it all depends on your definition of a process in the first instance.

IMNSHO, BPMN should be able to describe a process that consists of two pools collaborating (i.e. interacting). This is a far more powerful notion of process (which is what was going in with BPML)

OTOH, it seems that we have a definition which is very much centred around the execution of one thread of activity (a la BPEL)

[Stephen A White]

Derek,

I think what you are suggesting is there, in a general sense. A BPD does show two Pools interacting--although a more intensive "collaboration" is something we need to look at.

The problem with the text lies in the definition of BPMN elements. A "Process," as defined by BPMN, (only) exists within a Pool. A BPD can have multiple Pools. We don't really call the entire diagram, with multiple Pools, a "process." Perhaps we need to name it.

[Derek Miers]

In my language, within a Pool would be a thread of execution inside one role, whereas a process operates up and down the value chain (i.e. extends past the boundaries of the organisational entity).

[Stephen A White]

Yes, language and terms have been a challenge from the beginning. For some people, the object we call a Task is a Process.
So, we had to put some stakes in the ground and define the terms we are using. So a Process is confined to a Pool, a Sub-Process is a Process contained in any Process. A Sub-Process Object hides or shows its contained Process. A Task is an atomic activity.
A Business Process Diagram can contain multiple Pools (that interact through Message Flow).